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BFS57
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 03 2018, 10:52 am    Post subject: Whats Next!!! Reply with quote

Hello;
Well, now that I sold my 32, Im now turning my attention to my 57!
Im trying to get some ideas on just how to improve what I have and make my car a really nice product of my thinking!
It has several things that are good,(interior, engine, trans, paint and paint and trim) I just want to make mechanical things better, and dress up what I have! I wish that there was a kind of one stop place to take my car for evaluation on what I have and how to better it!!
I am in the bay area so maybe someone can make suggestions as to how I can go about this next phase on my car!!!!

Bruce
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enjenjo
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 03 2018, 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be nice to hear some details on your car again, and an idea of where you are headed.
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Rochie
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 03 2018, 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BFS57,
Some of the best things I did on my 57 were a rear sway bar, a 700R4, and FITech fuel injection. The saw bar upped the handling, the trans made it a much better highway car still with a lot of grunt down low. The fuel injection made it a whole new car. Better mileage, drivability, throttle response and what made my wife the happiest no fuel smell in the garage.
Just something to think about.
Wayne
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rumrumm
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 03 2018, 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Photos? X2 on the FiTech fuel injection. I installed in on my '32 two years ago, and while it was a lot of work changing out the gas tank and running the lines, it was well worth it.
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BFS57
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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 05 2018, 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello;
Im thinking that after I clean and re-paint my motor that I should ad a "front Runner system" as all that bling will really look nice!
Looking at cost they can get pretty pricey!! Looked at one on EBAY but it seems to be missing two things, one is a resivor for the power steering pump (same seller has a $40.00 tank for that) and Im not seeing a tensioner. Upon reading it states that the system can be "adjusted" so the belt is not loose. Anyone have any experiences with these systems? Chime in please..

Bruce
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kb426
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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 05 2018, 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce, I didn't go look but most of what I have seen in that description has been a turnbuckle somewhere to adjust one piece of the puzzle. If you have followed my "clean out the garage" thread, you have seen the adjuster I mentioned on mine.
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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 05 2018, 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like the turnbuckle idea . Just such a nice way to add tension without arm wrestling with the car .
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BFS57
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PostPosted: Sat, Jan 06 2018, 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello;
I found another Front Runner system and it has the power steering pump with a tank on it and the system is tensioned by adjusting the Alternator. All I have to do is measure the distance from the front of the block to the fan to guarantee that I do have the room necessary to mount this system.
Also, as said earlier the Fi tech FI system I looked at with the fuel command center looks really good! Guess I will be selling lots of used parts soon on Craigs list or EBAY!
Found some really nice looking Valve covers as the ones I have look like poop!

Bruce
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kb426
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PostPosted: Sat, Jan 06 2018, 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I can possibly persuade you to mount your fuel pump in your tank, I believe you will be very satisfied. I noticed the other day that someone was selling a pump and sender unit that would bolt in where the original sender was in the older tanks. I would like to mention that Fitech sells these with a huge capacity fuel pump. I have a friend who bought the command center and suffered vapor lock problems. He moved the big pump to the tank and that cured his problem. However, the continual bypassing of fuel causes problems so a pump closer to the engines requirements would be better.
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BFS57
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PostPosted: Sat, Jan 06 2018, 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kb426 wrote:
If I can possibly persuade you to mount your fuel pump in your tank, I believe you will be very satisfied. I noticed the other day that someone was selling a pump and sender unit that would bolt in where the original sender was in the older tanks. I would like to mention that Fitech sells these with a huge capacity fuel pump. I have a friend who bought the command center and suffered vapor lock problems. He moved the big pump to the tank and that cured his problem. However, the continual bypassing of fuel causes problems so a pump closer to the engines requirements would be better.


Hello;
They do have a outside the tank pump with the Fi set up and they have a one piece that does go into the tank but I am limited on fab talents and am trying to do easiest I may save that one for a later time.
First off I need to clean my engine and intake then go from there.
Some of the things I would like to do, Im not kidding myself as I am still recuperating from spine surgery! I can buy those and just have them for when I can do it. Right now, I sold lots of my car stuff in Florida and I don't even have a jack!

Bruce
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kb426
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PostPosted: Sat, Jan 06 2018, 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If and when I remember who makes that pump unit, I'll post the link. I'm sympathetic to your circumstances. Smile Just for info, the early efi systems had external pumps but most were 14 lb. system. The early Fords were 40 lb. At that point the pumps were more prone to overheating and failure. Also, those pumps have little suction power. Mounting them is very important. I know I read the notice of the pump and sender unit all in one in one of the recent publications. I'll keep after it. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun, Jan 07 2018, 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used the command centre from Fitech because I didn't want to mess with the tank. It's worked perfectly and mounted on the inside of the rad cradle keeps it away from the heat. When I put the car together I searched every where for the correct o-ring for the filler neck. I found just a bit too small an id, a bit too large od a bit too small section thickness and a bit too large a section, I finally found an original still in the package and it fit perfectly. So it's not broke and I'm not going to change that.
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UGLY OLDS
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PostPosted: Sun, Jan 07 2018, 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
However, the continual bypassing of fuel causes problems so a pump closer to the engines requirements would be better.
[/quote]

KB...Why does this cause problems or is it only with this style system Question GM has been this way for-ever I think.... Confused

Bob.. Wink

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kb426
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PostPosted: Sun, Jan 07 2018, 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob, as the pump continues to circulate the fuel, it heats and aerates the fuel. Tanks inc used to sell 2 pumps, 190 liter per hour and a 255 liter per hour. The 190 liter unit was rated to around 450hp and the 255 to 6 or 700 as my feeble memory recalls. Now people are installing 340 lph pumps that can feed over 1000hp. As the fuel heats, it's less dense and the vapor pressure that it gives off is way higher making it more prone to vapor locking. I personally have not experienced vapor lock on any efi engine while running. I have see that occur with heat sink after turning the engine off in the summer with a tight engine compartment. That was usually remedied by cycling the ignition several times to re-pressure the fuel rails. Then the engine started normally. My friend's truck was a mid 50's with a 350 that might be 300hp. Had an automatic and by most standards would be an a typical street rod truck. After installing the fitech unit and driving in 75- 85 degree temps, after about 20 miles or so, it would run poorly and sometimes quit. He would let it sit for a while and it would usually restart so he wasn't towed home. After fighting it for several attempts and visiting with other rodders, they all said " vapor lock", not knowing it had efi. He moved the fitech pump to the fuel tank and that cured the problem. Besides the heating of the fuel , the command center is usually put close the engine so depending on airflow, this could be a very hot environment. I could see that it would be possible because of the small volume of fuel in the command center. My thought was if he had installed a smaller pump, it could have eliminated the problem. I don't expect to change anybodies mind about this because many are working very well so we have satisfied customers. But, if you are starting with a clean sheet, and wanted the most durable setup, I believe having the pump in the tank to be the best but a closer sized pump makes sense to me. Just so you know, this information was pointed out to me by Mr. Enderle when I started running blown alky with a converted blown fuel system. I had large nozzles and low line pressure and huge bypassing of the fuel to the tank. After correcting the nozzle are to bypass correlation, things got way better. Sorry for the long reply. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 08 2018, 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it seems that that the FiTech "Command Center" is the issue & not the use of a circulating fuel return system ?? I agree on the fuel boiling & vaporizing under the hood during "hot soak" periods.....I just couldn't understand how it could happen in a normal stock fuel system with a large fuel tank..... Confused

Thanks for the explanation ... Your the Tops!

Bob... Wink

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kb426
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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 08 2018, 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob, I think most of the newer factory efi systems have a voltage controller on the system and no longer have bypassing systems. Ford began that with eec v. It's good to see the Team Smart originator on the job. Smile
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BFS57
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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 08 2018, 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello;
Now I don't know which pump to get. But I guess I should hang out and see if anyone directs my attention to the fuel pump to install in the tank. I know that FiTech has a new fuel pump unit made to go in a gas tank but I would have to pull the tank. OR! I can order a tank (new) already set up for EFI! ($500)

Bruce
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kb426
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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 08 2018, 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce, I can't seem to remember who announced the pump and sender all in one to retrofit in old tanks yet. Sorry for that. This link is to a new product from fitech but it's only for the pump in the existing gauge hole. http://fitechefi.com/products/40015/
Here is a link to an injector calculator: https://www.injectorrx.com/injector-size-calculator/
If the link comes up with the info I input, you will see I speced 4 62 lb injectors at 58 lbs. of fuel pressure. That is what I remember reading the fitech is set at. I maybe incorrect on that. You will see that running at a max of 80% duty cycle it was capable of almost 397 hp. The base fitech is rated to 400hp so that is really close however when you see the amount of fuel it requires, it shows 156 lph. The pump in my 32 is 190 lph. If you ordered a command center with the smaller 255 lph, you would still have a large over capacity. I don't understand why they would install the 340 lph as standard??? I'm around 300 hp in the 32 and have no fear of not having enough pump capacity. I'm sorry to have made this confusing. I want everyone to enjoy the benefits of efi on their hot rod without grief. Smile In regards to removing the tank, unless you are very certain it contains no containments, it might save you some time to clean it before doing the changeover. I did see that the Tanks tank is $215 but I suppose if you add the pump and sender you will have that $500. Smile
I checked the link and it didn't come up with the info I had input. it's fun to play with if that's of any value. Smile

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BFS57
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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 08 2018, 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kb426 wrote:
Bruce, I can't seem to remember who announced the pump and sender all in one to retrofit in old tanks yet. Sorry for that. This link is to a new product from fitech but it's only for the pump in the existing gauge hole. http://fitechefi.com/products/40015/
Here is a link to an injector calculator: https://www.injectorrx.com/injector-size-calculator/
If the link comes up with the info I input, you will see I speced 4 62 lb injectors at 58 lbs. of fuel pressure. That is what I remember reading the fitech is set at. I maybe incorrect on that. You will see that running at a max of 80% duty cycle it was capable of almost 397 hp. The base fitech is rated to 400hp so that is really close however when you see the amount of fuel it requires, it shows 156 lph. The pump in my 32 is 190 lph. If you ordered a command center with the smaller 255 lph, you would still have a large over capacity. I don't understand why they would install the 340 lph as standard??? I'm around 300 hp in the 32 and have no fear of not having enough pump capacity. I'm sorry to have made this confusing. I want everyone to enjoy the benefits of efi on their hot rod without grief. Smile In regards to removing the tank, unless you are very certain it contains no containments, it might save you some time to clean it before doing the changeover. I did see that the Tanks tank is $215 but I suppose if you add the pump and sender you will have that $500. Smile
I checked the link and it didn't come up with the info I had input. it's fun to play with if that's of any value. Smile


Hello;
My car originally had a 1406 Edelbrock carb which worked perfectly until the heat got to 180 d Then the engine would run like poop because the fuel would boil precisely at the temp and the engine would run bad. Enter the Road Deamon I just added with the Composite fuel bowl! No problem now! But I have always wanted to go EFI I just was to brain dead to do it, Thats why I sold the TPI that came with my engine and went carburated!
Now that Fi Tech has created this system the Command center looked like a EFI for dummies! Just hook up your mechanical fuel pump and run a wire to the command center and run a line to the EFI unit and make a return back to the tank!
My thought is if I do the command center I can install it in front of the radiator (off to the drivers side) which would allow it to run cool? Just the fuel lines would have to be longer!

Bruce
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kb426
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PostPosted: Tue, Jan 09 2018, 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce, that sounds ok to me. If I was doing it, I would buy the smaller pump. I spent some time thinking about this large pump deal trying to understand why they would push that. I see that some of the other manufacturers' are selling the same size pump so is it all marketing? Most controllers have pulse width modulation now. That controls voltage to the pump and allows the capacity to be diminished. I haven't been able to find out the parameters of how much this function can do. None of the newer cars have a large pump yet most are a returnless system with PMW. If I find an answer I will post it. I'm sure you have thought of this but anything fuel related on the front of the car does present a hazard in case of a collision. I think the fitech is popular enough that if you spend some time researching, you will find pics of many installations. You will probably see the answer to this. Smile
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