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Build a driveshaft

 
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Crosley
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PostPosted: Wed, May 17 2017, 10:22 pm    Post subject: Build a driveshaft Reply with quote

I need to build a drive shaft for my Simca. 1350 U-joint yoke on the 9 inch diff in the car , powerglide transmittin with 27 spline shaft

Looking into diy kits & individual parts.

never built a drive shaft. Guess I need to see if I can & get it straight , smooth

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chimp koose
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PostPosted: Wed, May 17 2017, 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Straight is important and so is getting the u joints phased properly . We used to take 2 steel rulers and place them on the u joint cups at each end . When the rulers were dead level with each other we would press the last yoke into the driveshaft . Any straightening needed was done with a small tip on the torch and heating up spots no bigger than a dime . I always cut the tube in a lathe so the ends are dead square . Actually all my drive shaft shortening is done in the lathe , cutting , pressing on ends , straightening and then out it comes to get welded .
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UGLY OLDS
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PostPosted: Thu, May 18 2017, 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Straight is important and so is getting the u joints phased properly just like Chimp says .....

Here's what NOT to do ... Rolling Eyes

Don't measure for the length you need , use a BIG tubing cutter to cut a good used shaft to the proper length, machine the tubing from the cut off yoke in a lathe to guarantee a nice press fit, clamp the shaft to a nice ,flat, straight piece of BIG I-Beam & carefully install the machined yoke , ( clamping to the I-Beam assures correct u-joint phasing), tack weld in 5 or 6 places & then finish weld while still clamped to the I-Beam ..... Idea

I know a guy that did this , ( Embarassed ) , the results were less than spectacular, it took the tail housing bushing & front slip yoke out almost immediately, caused all kinds of havoc, ( including a steering vibration that was SUPER hard to find), generally did not work for sh$$ & had to be replaced anyway..... Shocked

While it seemed like a good idea at the time, it ahhh, sorta, kinda, didn't work..... Rolling Eyes Embarassed

Since then, the guy measures the length he needs, visits the driveshaft man, stops by the next day & gives him $$$ & takes his NEW shaft home ..... Cool This new procedure seems to work REAL well for the guy that I know ...... Cool Laughing Laughing

Bob.... Wink

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PostPosted: Thu, May 18 2017, 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How to make a driveshaft

If you want to use new parts, you can usually get them from a driveshaft shop or online from Denny's driveshafts or others. For the tube, you can get that from a metal supplier. What you need is DOM tubing of the right diameter and thickness. I have seen shaft made from regular welded tubing, but you have to sand out the weld seam inside the tubing. You can increase the wall thickness of the tubing, but only moderately. If you do increase wall thickness turn down the OD of the yoke the same amount. Do not go thinner.

As a rule, the shorter the driveshaft, the smaller diameter you can make it. Also as a rule the more HP you have the larger you should make it.

I usually start with used parts. To salvage yokes, cut the tube a couple inches from the yoke. Chuck the tube end in a lathe, indicate on center, drill a small center into the joint side of the yoke, then cut the weld between the tube and the yoke. cut to the inside of the tube until the tube will release. If you are going to use a new tube, you have to do this on both ends. If you are using a used tube, and it has the right yoke, you only need to do one end.

When the tube is cut to the right length, press the yoke into place maintaining yoke phasing. Chuck it into the lathe between centers, or using a slip yoke and Ujoint on one end and a center on the other end. Dial indicate each end to reduce runout to as little as possible. You should be able to get it to .002 or less. Once you have the runout set tack weld in several places as you turn the shaft, checking runout between each tack. Then complete welding the yokes to the shaft. Recheck runout.

When you have done both ends, check the run out in several places along the length of the shaft to insure the tube is straight .020" in the center of the shaft or less.

I don't know of a way of balancing it without a machine. Actually I do, but it's kind of redneck.

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58 Yeoman
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PostPosted: Thu, May 18 2017, 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Bob...

What did you, I mean, what did your buddy do with the old shaft? Try to fix it, or just pitch it? Laughing

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PostPosted: Thu, May 18 2017, 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enjenjo , we used to straighten the driveshaft to less than .005 runout and they never seemed to need a balance . We did everything but the welding in the lathe . We had a welding lathe at the shop I did most driveshafts at . Fire it up , pull the mig trigger and set the rpm for the right travel rate . The last few I have had the driveshaft in a couple v blocks with the finished end blocked from moving backwards and turned by hand while someone else welds it . I have more trouble remembering how to install the new u joints than shortening the shaft .
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PostPosted: Fri, May 19 2017, 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

enjenjo wrote:
How to make a driveshaft

If you want to use new parts, you can usually get them from a driveshaft shop or online from Denny's driveshafts or others. For the tube, you can get that from a metal supplier. What you need is DOM tubing of the right diameter and thickness. I have seen shaft made from regular welded tubing, but you have to sand out the weld seam inside the tubing. You can increase the wall thickness of the tubing, but only moderately. If you do increase wall thickness turn down the OD of the yoke the same amount. Do not go thinner.

As a rule, the shorter the driveshaft, the smaller diameter you can make it. Also as a rule the more HP you have the larger you should make it.

I usually start with used parts. To salvage yokes, cut the tube a couple inches from the yoke. Chuck the tube end in a lathe, indicate on center, drill a small center into the joint side of the yoke, then cut the weld between the tube and the yoke. cut to the inside of the tube until the tube will release. If you are going to use a new tube, you have to do this on both ends. If you are using a used tube, and it has the right yoke, you only need to do one end.

When the tube is cut to the right length, press the yoke into place maintaining yoke phasing. Chuck it into the lathe between centers, or using a slip yoke and Ujoint on one end and a center on the other end. Dial indicate each end to reduce runout to as little as possible. You should be able to get it to .002 or less. Once you have the runout set tack weld in several places as you turn the shaft, checking runout between each tack. Then complete welding the yokes to the shaft. Recheck runout.

When you have done both ends, check the run out in several places along the length of the shaft to insure the tube is straight .020" in the center of the shaft or less.

I don't know of a way of balancing it without a machine. Actually I do, but it's kind of redneck.


What's the redneck way? (Hose clamps Laughing )(( been there done that))I need to make up an axle shaft..Hopefully..it will be just putting different ends on it (cv's). I am wondering about the balance aspect? There is no one even remotely close to me that can help me.
Local garage smart A$$ mechanics say to just try the new ends and stuff it in..if it vibrates it needs to be balanced Laughing
If it a barely noticeable vibration see if it takes out the axle shaft seals in the dif..then it needs to be balanced Laughing

Thanks
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PostPosted: Fri, May 19 2017, 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

58 Yeoman wrote:
Hey Bob...

What did you, I mean, what did your buddy do with the old shaft? Try to fix it, or just pitch it? Laughing


He decided that the procedure was right up there with " Hold my Beer & Watch This" and part of the learning process.. Idea Laughing

I'm pretty sure that I saw it go by last week ...Its now called "Toyota" or "Hyundai" or something like that .... Confused Laughing

The driveshaft man policy was followed & now all is well ... Cool Laughing

Bob... Wink

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PostPosted: Fri, May 19 2017, 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chimp koose wrote:
Enjenjo , we used to straighten the driveshaft to less than .005 runout and they never seemed to need a balance . We did everything but the welding in the lathe . We had a welding lathe at the shop I did most driveshafts at . Fire it up , pull the mig trigger and set the rpm for the right travel rate . The last few I have had the driveshaft in a couple v blocks with the finished end blocked from moving backwards and turned by hand while someone else welds it . I have more trouble remembering how to install the new u joints than shortening the shaft .


I have the stuff here to make a welding rotator for drive shafts and diffs, I just have not put it together.

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PostPosted: Fri, May 19 2017, 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arnold wrote:


What's the redneck way? (Hose clamps Laughing )(( been there done that))I need to make up an axle shaft..Hopefully..it will be just putting different ends on it (cv's). I am wondering about the balance aspect? There is no one even remotely close to me that can help me.
Local garage smart A$$ mechanics say to just try the new ends and stuff it in..if it vibrates it needs to be balanced Laughing
If it a barely noticeable vibration see if it takes out the axle shaft seals in the dif..then it needs to be balanced Laughing

Thanks


Actually it starts with hose clamps, a piece of chalk, a jack stand and some flat washers. Axle shafts turn much slower than drive shafts so balance is not as much a concern. Many newer shafts have the ends splined and pressed on, or retained by a snap ring.

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PostPosted: Fri, May 19 2017, 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

enjenjo wrote:
Arnold wrote:


What's the redneck way? (Hose clamps Laughing )(( been there done that))I need to make up an axle shaft..Hopefully..it will be just putting different ends on it (cv's). I am wondering about the balance aspect? There is no one even remotely close to me that can help me.
Local garage smart A$$ mechanics say to just try the new ends and stuff it in..if it vibrates it needs to be balanced Laughing
If it a barely noticeable vibration see if it takes out the axle shaft seals in the dif..then it needs to be balanced Laughing

Thanks


Actually it starts with hose clamps, a piece of chalk, a jack stand and some flat washers. Axle shafts turn much slower than drive shafts so balance is not as much a concern. Many newer shafts have the ends splined and pressed on, or retained by a snap ring.


Thanks Very Happy
I wasn't trying to be a smart A$$.
There is NO CV shaft available..(replacement) AND I did think of shortening a replacement..or the original..but there was really no one around here that would even weld it to the length I wanted (1 1/2" shorter) SOoo..I rooted around until I found a shorter outer joint and shaft assembly and could not see why I could not stick them together. Means I will have to use 1 rear CV shaft..take off the outer joint and short shaft..and 1 FRONT CV shaft assembly..(by taking off the outer end too and mating the front outer joint and shorter shaft to the rear)
I bought both new shafts and they have just sat here in their boxes. I figured I would do this when I needed to Twisted Evil
I do know when that happens Laughing
The only concern I had was with balancing the assembly up.
Seems pretty simple to me,,both are splined ends snap rings set ups.

The manufacturer of these shafts..These are both new..not re-built shafts..said I could not do this. SO did a CV joint shaft re-builder in Toronto. I figured the only reason they said that was the balance factor. The vehicle uses the same wheel bearings front and rear (hub/bearing assemblies) Looks to me like EVERYTHING interchanges.
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PostPosted: Fri, May 19 2017, 11:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Build a driveshaft Reply with quote

Crosley wrote:
I need to build a drive shaft for my Simca. 1350 U-joint yoke on the 9 inch diff in the car , powerglide transmittin with 27 spline shaft

Looking into diy kits & individual parts.

never built a drive shaft. Guess I need to see if I can & get it straight , smooth


have you looked into what sonnax offers in their driveshaft line.. might get it right thru your work. if you still work there.
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Crosley
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PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Build a driveshaft Reply with quote

wayne petty wrote:

have you looked into what sonnax offers in their driveshaft line.. might get it right thru your work. if you still work there.


Sonnax driveshaft yokes are aluminum. Would be nice, out of my price range. In fact; I need to determine cost a bit closer to see if my car account will take the hit or laugh at the cost.

I have 5 drive shafts here. None are a 1350 U-joint. Option would be: change the yoke on the 9 inch center section to 1310 or 1330 yoke. Get one of my drive shafts shortened up.

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PostPosted: Sat, May 20 2017, 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it be an option to use a hybrid ujoint that is 1350-1330 or 10?
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