Steering specs for 56 ford?

[32 Chevy]

The steering in my Ranchwagon has always been a bit twitchy. It wanders a bit on the highway and seems sensitive to input, especially since I changed wheels to 265 x 70 x 16.

Basically the suspension is stock except for 2" drop spindles adapted from a 78 Granada. All the parts like bushings, shocks etc. are new and tight. The steering box is the new Borgeson power unit designed as a bolt in for 55-56 fords.

I recall some discussion on this board a while back about how original alignment specs dont relate well with modern tires. The alignment is currently set to the original specs stating:

Caster 1/2 to 1 1/2 degrees
Camber 1/4 to 1 1/4 degrees
Toe in 1/16 to 1/8.

It seems to be tracking ok because tread wear is even across both front tires. When I run the flat of my hand across the tread I don't detect any feathering or taper that would indicate misalignment.

Suggestions? I 'preciate it!

Dave R.

[wayne petty]

those are fairly broad specs... can you get a computerized print out of what the car actually is... exact what the car is measured at.. not what the book says.????

is there ANY slack in any of the tie rod ends..


1 1/2 degrees negative on the caster is where i am for on my later fords..

(upper ball joint behind the lower ball joint.. )

1/2 positive camber on the left.. (leaning out slightly on the left when pointed straight ahead)

1/4 positive camber on the right..

why more on the left than the right.. to counter act the crown of the road..

toe in.. tend to get in in the 1/8" toe in.. but i usually double check my setting by having the car driven down the street while i EYEBALL the toe in adjustment by looking at the tires as i stand inline with them..

[32 Chevy]

Thanks Wayne.

The specs on the computer printout are:

Caster right 1.0 degrees
Caster left 1.4 degrees

Camber right 0.2 degrees
Camber left -0.2 degrees


Toe in left .2 degrees
Toe in right .2 degrees

[wayne petty]

The specs on the computer printout are:

Caster right 1.0 degrees MORE PLEASE on the right...
Caster left 1.4 degrees

the right upper ball joint needs to be moved toward the back of the car just slightly.. how thats done if you have eccentrics or shims.. ??? or strut rods on the lower.. moving the lower ball joint forward.. would have the same effect..

i don't know how wide your tires are... usually a little more positive on the camber.. leaning out at the top will help.. this is almost perfectly straight up...

Camber right 0.2 degrees
Camber left -0.2 degrees


Toe in left .2 degrees
Toe in right .2 degrees

please.. if you paint is cured.. stick a piece of low tack masking tape on the side of the fenders usually in front of the tires.. so you can stand a yard stick there and mark the height without you sitting in the car.. then get in.. have somebody make another mark on the tape... then you know how many bags of sand to carry with you or bench press weights... to the alignment shop as you have calculated out how much the car drops when you get in..

warning.. if you ride alone.. most of the time.. do it just with you.. if your long distance travels are with wives or friends .. that weight needs to be calculated..

the yard stick is a neat trick i have used a bunch of times.. i usually mark it above my turn table plates.. but having the car set up with the proper weight as the tech drives it onto the alignment rack is the idea..

you are not trying to set the weight on the alignment rack.. but on a flat shop floor..

be sure to equally distribute the weight on both sides for road testing.. or remove it..

if you are going to use bench weights.. use a bungie through the hole if you position them on the floor in front of the seat.. hooked to the seat frame.. to stop them from sliding forward.. the floor of the back seat is usually close enough..

if your car only drops a quarter inch when you get in.. then the point is moot.. if it drops more than that. well.. you get the idea..

try not to drop weights on the toes..

ben there done that.. you can also use masking tape for left or right side positioning.. R or L...

[32 Chevy]

O.k, good stuff here.


I'll double check the condition of the ball joints etc before taking it back and your point of passenger weight affecting the alignment also makes sense.

But the so called alignment tech is only capable of inputting the numbers he's given. What specs would you advise I tell him to to set?

[wayne petty]

and the tire size is


on the front...

camber.. 1/2 positive left. 1/4 positive right

caster 1 1/2 negative..

toe in 0.2

[32 Chevy]

And the tire size is 215-60-17

[wayne petty]

what i posted will work...

if it pulls to the left.. you might want to reduce it to
camber
3/8 positive left..
3/16 positive right.. as that would be a 25% reduction ..

this reduction would reduce outer tire wear.. which is why the tires might be set at 0 camber..

another question.. are the roads in your area FLAT.. or crowned.. or have RUTS from spiked winter tires..?

you could be twitchy just because of the difference in space between the tires in the grooves in the road..

on the 101 and a bunch of other freeways around.. they milled the surface smooth on the concrete.. man its nice to drive on.. only problem.. the banzai runs the motorcycles make past my place.. some sound like they are going over 150..

[32 Chevy]

Thanks Wayne,

I'm up to the north of you in western Washington. Yep, they crown the roads here or else we'd be leaving rooster tails behind our tires.

Soon as I get the adjustments done I'll report back because I'm sure others have the same questions.

Dave R.

[wayne petty]

western washington... i know that place.. bellingham mostly.. a cousin is mayor there..

love making stops in kent at boeing surplus..

[enjenjo]

Do you have a rack and pinion on that car? If do, you might want a little more caster, as steering racks don't self center, like steering boxes do.

[32 Chevy]

[wayne petty]

I took out the Cavalier rack because I got tired of the wide turning radius and 4 1/2 turns lock to lock.

its a shame.. that shorter steering arms are not easily available.. to restore the ratio of movement to the turn angle of the spindles.. without it being Ubolt over the top things to shorten the steering arms and return the ratio..

[29abone]

When I was a suspension designer at Chrysler, we used negative caster for manual steering for less effort, and positive caster for stability with power steering. Since your car was originally manual, you should take this into consideration.

[32 Chevy]

[wayne petty]

O.k. I got it set to the specs suggested by Wayne. Steering is much better, crisper and tracks better. But it still wanders a little bit on rough roads.


curious... can you describe the Rough roads...

are these roads with RUTS where trucks and cars with studded tires have chewed away the pavement in shallow depressions... if your suspension width does not match these... its going to cause darting to the side slightly as you ride down on one side and up on the other..

also how good is your long range eye sight???

can you have a friend drive your car toward you and away from you while you sight along the tires while its rolling to see if the toe in is perfect... this requires the driver to aim the car at a point and NOT turn the wheel. while you are shifting position to see the tire toe in.. perhaps this is a skill that i have... i can see a soft tire on a car going by in seconds.. i am not talking about flat.. i am talking down to 20 pounds from 32..

you might also be able to have a friend drive it.. and you follow along in another car.. so you can see the tire toe in vs toe out while in motion..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

now.. if you are talking about Rough roads.. where the suspension is moving up and down more than an inch or so..

and the car darts to the side .. when the suspension is compressed.. this could be a Bump Steer issue..

this is tons of ADVANCES automotive suspension geometry .. way beyond anything that i know..

what bump steer is... at normal ride height.. the toe in is straight ahead... when the suspension is compressed.. or released.. the toe in should NOT change very much at all..

do to swapping suspension components around.. issues can be raised where the suspension flexes and the tie rod ends are either not equal length or the are at a different angle from the 9 or 3 o clock position at ride height..

if the suspension is at say.. below the pivot point center. but the tie rod is above it. as the suspension moves through its arc of motion from the bushings.. if the tie rod is not at the same point of its curve.. the tie rod will get longer or shorter in and cause the tires to steer the car in an unintended direction when the suspension goes over a bump.. hence the term Bump steer.. .i realize i have butchered this.. so i will say i am sorry to all the suspension professionals who read this gibberish i have slung out on this page..

[32 Chevy]

Wayne,

Maybe 'wandering' isn't the right word.. On nice flat roads I need to make more steering corrections than expected.

If I hit a pothole or tar strip there's a bit of hop but that's expected in 50 year old designs..

I did have some minor bump steer issues a while back but traced those to loose bolts in the rear leaf spring shackles. Went thought all the front suspension several times without finding a problem that Wes coming from the back.. I'm reasonably familiar enough with steering geometry to understand the causes of bump steer so don't think that's the cause of the current issue.

[wayne petty]

Maybe 'wandering' isn't the right word.. On nice flat roads I need to make more steering corrections than expected.

do the visual drive behind or stand in front to see if the front wheels are really pointed straight ahead when driving...

you may need more toe in or less... as the front tires might be fighting each other under the resistance of being rolled along..

i know that there is no slop in your steering..

think of toe in needs as bump steer rotated 90 degrees...

so the drag of the tires being pushed along pushes back on the suspension.. depending on how much this is where to set the toe in so they are straight forward...

just had a thought.. do you have any ratcheting straps.. the 3/4 or 1 inch wide versions like is used to hold motor cycles down??? perhaps while its on the alignment machine.. see if there is a way to grab the back of the spindle with the straps to the frame.. then check the TOE CHANGE when the wheels are pointed forward..

you might be able to do this at home even..


i have always wanted to create a spring loaded device.. to fit between the front wheels... up on the spring door stoppers do it can get its legs bent without damage. i was thinking of something like a TEE square on each end .. pivoted near the top center of the tee...

or some carpenters squares... the big L shaped things... pivoted somehow.. so i can lean them in against the inside of the tires while i am under the car to see the exact toe..


when i was in auto shop a LONG time ago.. the alignment bay had magnetic mount toe gauges with a bar..

i just don't know how the slight offset in some suspensions was handled...

mostly i use a tape measure hooked carefully over the blocks in the tread.. or if i dig out my scribe and the pointer from my storage garage....

[32 Chevy]

Your comment about the tires fighting themselves brings to mind a RRT post I called up from years ago.

The discussion was alignment with old school bias ply tires vs modern wide belted tires. Bias ply tires have a lot of squirm so had a lot of toe in to allow the tread to point straight ahead when rolling. If you set low profile modern tires with the same amount of toe in they'd fight themselves so called for less toe in, as low as 1/32 inch. Maybe I should try less toe in? What say you to this concept?

[wayne petty]

toe in like i posted.. might need to be adjusted... do to differences in the suspension .. the tires drag...


i don't know what you are using for steering linkage adjusters.

you might want to use some paint markers.. to mark quadrants on the adjuster sleeves.. so you know.. that you have moved it 1/4 turn or 1/2 turn... on both sides equally..

so.. 1, 2, 3, 4 on the adjuster tubes... both in the same direction..

you might also want to use a tape measure.. measure 4 inches up... between the front of the tires... and the same height between the back of the tires... from the end of the tip of the tape measure.. to read exactly how much is sticking out of the case.. if you can easily read it.. note the exact number..

the calibrated eyeball toe in check is a good way to go...


i the ideal toe in is 0.. ZERO.. when the wheels are in motion.. so the wheels are pointed straight ahead..

i seem to recall a use for old computer paper.. by laying a strip of it across your path on a smooth concrete painted surface... drive across it.. does the paper lay flat.. or does it wrinkle up.. or tear in half...

hollywood spring and axle had an in ground machine in the entrance to the shop.. that as you drove it.. the little spiked saw blades were depressed and shifted.. it showed up as either toe in or toe out.. what a great machine.. must have sold a Lot of wheel alignments right on the spot..